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Hi Folks,
Very approximately: how much time would it take and how much would it cost to obtain 1,000 names and numbers from a satellite office of a large company?
Thank You,
Keith (Doesn�??t Have This Project) Halperin keithsrj@sbcglobal.net
14 replies
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Hi Folks,
I�??ve received lots of useful information on this topic. I�??d like to explore it in more detail. Maureen kindly opened up the discussion to inquire into the meaning of names sourcing. I�??d like to do exactly that.
IMSM, I have recently seen rates of $1/name to fill out an org chart using a VM search, to $9-, $10-, 15-, $16-, $23-, $40-, and $45/name for various types of sourcing (usually phone). One internet sourcer quoted me as $100/position. Does anyone charge by the hour?
I�??d like to find out which of these types of sourcing YOU do and how/how much you charge for performing them: 1)�??Board scraping�??- getting names/contact info off job boards or Linked In, Facebook, etc. 2)Internet sourcing- using Boolean and other search techniques- obtaining names/contact info off the internet which are not found on the locations above 3)Phone sourcing- using rusing and other techniques to cold-call into a company to obtain names/contact info of individuals with little or no internet �??footprint�?? 4)A combination of some of the above. 5)Something completely different! Also, I�??d like it if you could add a few lines about why you�??re �??special�??: If you don�??t charge �??much,�?? why you deliver quality work, and if you charge �??a lot�?? why you provide superior service. Finally, if you could say what types of searches (if any) are unfeasible or impossible for you to do.
I strongly encourage you to send out this information individually to the entire forum (and to me at keithsrj@sbcglobal.net), but if you feel uncomfortable about getting your name out individually to tens of thousands of people at a shot, then you can send it just to me. For a nominal sum I will put the responses received from now through April 30th into a directory which I will release shortly thereafter for these tens of thousands to see.
�??Truth will out�?? and �??let the devil take the hindmost!�??
Keith D. Halperin keithsrj@sbcglobal.net 415.586.8265
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Joshua, thank you so much for putting this whole issue in such simple terms. You are right, the customer is not, will not, take any risk in hiring in a recession. Guess what, it is like this every recession. I was straight retainer for my customers the last 4 years. My major client fired me and I am back on 100% commission. I took it without a flinch becasue 1. I have been recruiting for 20+ years and have been through many such cycles, 2. I know how to recruit - you will find a lot of TPR that perform sourcing have no clue as to what the recruiting process is all about - like PICK UP A PHONE. 3. I know how to do business with my client - I know when their all day meetings are, what the level of follow up they can provide - in fact, my client came back to me and asked me to recruit for them because I know how to do business with them and I provide great candidates - it was a no brainer.
I know sourcing, I know research and I have had a lot of bad experiences with research firms because I did not choose them in the pertaining projects. I have vouched for Michael Kramer because he understands what candidates to go after - he does not sit down at late at night and write down names from a phone directory and charge a ton.
When things do improve I will use Michael again. His service and product is the most cost effective, quality oriented, and time effective I have seen on this site. Everything else is garbage - I am amazed that there are so many products out there on how to flip Twitter or google for names when THERE IS LITTLE BUSINESS. It is like GM selling Hummers when gas was $4 a gallon.
Thanks for the clarity Joshua.
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Joshua, thank you so much for putting this whole issue in such simple terms. You are right, the customer is not, will not, take any risk in hiring in a recession. Guess what, it is like this every recession. I was straight retainer for my customers the last 4 years. My major client fired me and I am back on 100% commission. I took it without a flinch becasue 1. I have been recruiting for 20+ years and have been through many such cycles, 2. I know how to recruit - you will find a lot of TPR that perform sourcing have no clue as to what the recruiting process is all about - like PICK UP A PHONE. 3. I know how to do business with my client - I know when their all day meetings are, what the level of follow up they can provide - in fact, my client came back to me and asked me to recruit for them because I know how to do business with them and I provide great candidates - it was a no brainer.
I know sourcing, I know research and I have had a lot of bad experiences with research firms because I did not choose them in the pertaining projects. I have vouched for Michael Kramer because he understands what candidates to go after - he does not sit down at late at night and write down names from a phone directory and charge a ton.
When things do improve I will use Michael again. His service and product is the most cost effective, quality oriented, and time effective I have seen on this site. Everything else is garbage - I am amazed that there are so many products out there on how to flip Twitter or google for names when THERE IS LITTLE BUSINESS. It is like GM selling Hummers when gas was $4 a gallon.
Thanks for the clarity Joshua.
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Joshua, thank you so much for putting this whole issue in such simple terms. You are right, the customer is not, will not, take any risk in hiring in a recession. Guess what, it is like this every recession. I was straight retainer for my customers the last 4 years. My major client fired me and I am back on 100% commission. I took it without a flinch becasue 1. I have been recruiting for 20+ years and have been through many such cycles, 2. I know how to recruit - you will find a lot of TPR that perform sourcing have no clue as to what the recruiting process is all about - like PICK UP A PHONE. 3. I know how to do business with my client - I know when their all day meetings are, what the level of follow up they can provide - in fact, my client came back to me and asked me to recruit for them because I know how to do business with them and I provide great candidates - it was a no brainer.
I know sourcing, I know research and I have had a lot of bad experiences with research firms because I did not choose them in the pertaining projects. I have vouched for Michael Kramer because he understands what candidates to go after - he does not sit down at late at night and write down names from a phone directory and charge a ton.
When things do improve I will use Michael again. His service and product is the most cost effective, quality oriented, and time effective I have seen on this site. Everything else is garbage - I am amazed that there are so many products out there on how to flip Twitter or google for names when THERE IS LITTLE BUSINESS. It is like GM selling Hummers when gas was $4 a gallon.
Thanks for the clarity Joshua.
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Joshua, thank you so much for putting this whole issue in such simple terms. You are right, the customer is not, will not, take any risk in hiring in a recession. Guess what, it is like this every recession. I was straight retainer for my customers the last 4 years. My major client fired me and I am back on 100% commission. I took it without a flinch becasue 1. I have been recruiting for 20+ years and have been through many such cycles, 2. I know how to recruit - you will find a lot of TPR that perform sourcing have no clue as to what the recruiting process is all about - like PICK UP A PHONE. 3. I know how to do business with my client - I know when their all day meetings are, what the level of follow up they can provide - in fact, my client came back to me and asked me to recruit for them because I know how to do business with them and I provide great candidates - it was a no brainer.
I know sourcing, I know research and I have had a lot of bad experiences with research firms because I did not choose them in the pertaining projects. I have vouched for Michael Kramer because he understands what candidates to go after - he does not sit down at late at night and write down names from a phone directory and charge a ton.
When things do improve I will use Michael again. His service and product is the most cost effective, quality oriented, and time effective I have seen on this site. Everything else is garbage - I am amazed that there are so many products out there on how to flip Twitter or google for names when THERE IS LITTLE BUSINESS. It is like GM selling Hummers when gas was $4 a gallon.
Thanks for the clarity Joshua.
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Joshua, thank you so much for putting this whole issue in such simple terms. You are right, the customer is not, will not, take any risk in hiring in a recession. Guess what, it is like this every recession. I was straight retainer for my customers the last 4 years. My major client fired me and I am back on 100% commission. I took it without a flinch becasue 1. I have been recruiting for 20+ years and have been through many such cycles, 2. I know how to recruit - you will find a lot of TPR that perform sourcing have no clue as to what the recruiting process is all about - like PICK UP A PHONE. 3. I know how to do business with my client - I know when their all day meetings are, what the level of follow up they can provide - in fact, my client came back to me and asked me to recruit for them because I know how to do business with them and I provide great candidates - it was a no brainer.
I know sourcing, I know research and I have had a lot of bad experiences with research firms because I did not choose them in the pertaining projects. I have vouched for Michael Kramer because he understands what candidates to go after - he does not sit down at late at night and write down names from a phone directory and charge a ton.
When things do improve I will use Michael again. His service and product is the most cost effective, quality oriented, and time effective I have seen on this site. Everything else is garbage - I am amazed that there are so many products out there on how to flip Twitter or google for names when THERE IS LITTLE BUSINESS. It is like GM selling Hummers when gas was $4 a gallon.
Thanks for the clarity Joshua.
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I've also heard great feedback on Michael Kramer as well - haven't used his services as of yet, but would certainly consider. That being said, I have used Sheila Heald and was extremely satisfied with the accuracy and timeliness of her work. Seriously, she did a knockout job and isn't just a telephone name generator - she's a former Executive Recruiter (who started a research firm), so she has skill sets that enable her to provide exceeding value in the form of real intel (i.e. intel that helps us position our opportunity, etc.) In other words, she's not just scrubbing names from a receptionist.
I tried another better known firm (I won't mention here) prior to Sheila and they failed miserably - in fact, the final report was a cut and paste from LinkedIn along with an Excel spreadsheet exported from Broadlook Diver. (No kidding - lol) :) But guess what? They billed me and I still had to pay for their garbage. What I'd urge fellow TPRs to look out for here is the sales rep, owner, or client-facing rep of a Telephone Research firm telling us one thing, at which point they sub out our project (whereby they can't guarantee the accuracy of the work). It's funny, but true - I've seen Research go the way of multi-level marketing in some areas.
My challenge with engaging these types of services is that they're not *always* a great value for a Third Party Recruiter who typically works on contingency (yes, we all know retainers are 'assumed' to be better, and in some cases, they are . . . however it's not always feasible to get them approved in a recession). Why are they not a great value? Because the TPR is, as usual, taking on all the risk in terms of putting a deal together (i.e. making the placement).
It's interesting to live in a world of 'eat what you kill', pure commission-based recruiting . . . yet most vendors and service providers reject putting their own skin in the game with you :) And you know what? I don't blame them - this is a tough business and pure commission isn't for the faint of heart.
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Michael Kramer delivers on his promises. I have used him. He is reliable, efficient, accurate, cost-efective and very timely. His quick turnaround of information saved me literally hours of my time on a recent engagement.
I don't know how he does it --and, frankly, I don't even care. He is good at what he does. I don't even know how my TV works --all I care is that I get a picture on my screen when I turn it on.
If you want quck and quality results for sourcing and name generation, Michael Kramer is my recommendation.
Be well.....
David M. Schwartz
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Michael Kramer delivers on his promises. I have used him. He is reliable, efficient, accurate, cost-efective and very timely. His quick turnaround of information saved me literally hours of my time on a recent engagement.
I don't know how he does it --and, frankly, I don't even care. He is good at what he does. I don't even know how my TV works --all I care is that I get a picture on my screen when I turn it on.
If you want quck and quality results for sourcing and name generation, Michael Kramer is my recommendation.
Be well.....
David M. Schwartz
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Maybe I misunderstood him when he said: CAll me to discuss with me anything you need to know about what I have learned all these years of making ruse calls. My apologies if I did!
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Maureen, how do you know that Michael is "ruse calling". That is an assumption by someone who wants to peddle the nonsense that I see on this email stream.
Michael is the one who should be offering training.
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Keith is not referring to true phone sourcing - finding the names of people who hold particular titles doing particular job functions - he is asking about what it would cost for someone to use a phone to build out the names and direct dials attached to each name in a company's telephone directory - you know, the thing they invite you to access when you call by pressing 1 (or 2, or 9 or 6 - 'member that?) In particular, his question seems to be prompted by an article I just wrote here on ERE. If you read it carefully, one answer as to cost is contained within the article.
And Michael, if you want to move beyond ruse calling, I highly recommend my MagicMethod training! ****** Looking for information on phone sourcing? Read through the T and TH Phone Sourcing Classroom Chats over on the MagicMethod network. They�??re listed in the Blog Posts section and are identifiable by the yellow talk bubble that says �??MagicTalk�??.
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I will vouch for MSK. I had a difficult project last year. My company was tasked to fill difficult positions around the United States in a short period of time. Sourcing was crucial. I had worked with other sourcing companies who use the internet to identify people for me. What I found was that the internet is a time waste and the sourcing companies never understood what I was looking for. I have extensive sourcing experience in my 20+ years in recruiting. What I found out with all the cyber babble is that the quality is excrutingly poor and expensive.
I saw a posting by Michael who sourced the old fashion way - using the phone. I called and retained Michael. I have to say he was right on - quality (as defined by me > the right people), timely (did it within the agreed time frame), and cost effective (Michael's guarantee of replacing names really does work). Michael can break out an organization, which helped my team. I highly recommend Michael. Unlike a lot of sourcing people, he is not afraid to use the phone instead of a click on a mouse.
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How much would it cost to get the names of evertyone within a targeted group?? MSK Research charges $16 a name, guaranteed to be right on, and, I do all of my research/name generation over the telephone and ALWAYsS have for 23 years. CAll me to discuss with me anything you need to know about what I have learned all these years of making ruse calls. Michael Kramer, MSK Research, Inc., (734)420-1040
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