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Has anyone had any experience, good or bad, with hiring a viritual recruiter/sourcer? We are considering exploring this avenue in expanding our executive recruiting business without investing in new offices, phone systems, etc. We are at capacity at our current locations.
If someone has had experience either as the virtual recruiter/sourcer or in hiring such an individual, can you tell me how the pay schedule works. Since they are not in the office to monitor phone calls, progress, etc. do you pay hourly, hourly plus bonus or just on production. What is standard for the number of hours per week that a virutal individual would or could work. Any advice anyone can give in this area would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Tom Culligan Senior Associate Construction Search Group 561-852-5532 www.constructiontalent.com
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Amanda,
I appreciate your insight and willingness to share your expertise.
I include Canada and other local nations out of my personal bias. They are our neighbors, and it is good to be neighborly.
Personally I feel that the our baby step of NAFTA will eventually lead to a united North America. When I look at our hemisphere I see neighbors with huge natural resources to the North, human resources to the South, cultural ties, common security interests, common languages, etc. To me, these borders are already grey lines.
Eventually we may use of the U.S. Dollar (similar to the EU) as one continental currency, like much of the Caribbean already does. This would lead to the inevitable union with South America. We could all hold hands and share a Cola. Like I said, a thought for another day.
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I�??ve been an Internet Sourcer for over ten years and have worked directly with phone sourcers. I�??ve always thought a successful internet sourcer should be creative, resourceful, patient, persistent, analytical and curious. A successful phone sourcer should have many of these traits but they should also have many of the characteristics as a recruiter.
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Absolutely Maureen.
A phone sourcer (someone who is really, really good at it) has more of a fast start profile with lower patience and very low call reluctance. (this profile is more similar to a successful recruiter profile)
An internet sourcer (someone who is really, really good at it) has a profile that shows they are more of a fact finder, much higher patience and may have high call reluctance.
I'm basing the verbiage here on the Kolbe which is the assessment tool we use. I certainly wouldn't say someone with internet sourcer traits couldn't be successful as a phone sourcer. But historically, the most successful at each show the same kinds of traits based on this assessment. I hope this helps explain my statements from yesterday.
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Amanda, can you elaborate between the two?
In fact, the profile for a phone sourcer is different than that of an internet sourcer.
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James, I'm curious. Why are you so against off shoring work but are okay with it going to Canada? That was a very interesting point you made in your last post. I also have a couple of points.
1. We exist in a global economy and I think it is important to keep ones mind open to this fact in order to be able to play in this global economy. I don't think limiting oneself to only doing business with and in the US is a good idea. If a company based in England called and asked you to recruit for them, would you? What makes that any different than you using an offshore team to do research and sourcing for you?
2. The original request was one about needing suggestions on hiring a virtual recruiter/sourcer. I would argue these are two different roles. We've been a very successful recruiting firm for 30+ years and have proven the "profile" for a successful recruiter is very different than the profile for a successful sourcer. In fact, the profile for a phone sourcer is different than that of an internet sourcer. I think it is important for all TPR and Corporate recruiters to understand this when making decisions about who to hire for these two different roles.
3. Your points about who knows it all best is a very good and valuable point. I think it is more important to get the best value, not the "cheapest" service. Just because a service costs less does NOT mean it is the best service to go with. If the service can't bring a good ROI to your business, is it really the way to go? Over the past 30 years we've tried several different models for sourcing and recruiting. We've proven an ROI of $67+ by taking the internet sourcing function off shore and giving our recruiters a realistic opportunity to make 100+ calls per day and achieve 4 hours of talk time. This is what we've proven needs to be done to succeed in this business.
And by the way, I do have an agenda. To help members of ERE understand their options and provide examples of our 30+ years of experience in this business so that you all can learn from our mistakes and hopefully not make the same mistakes we've made. It's taken me more than 2 years to convince our Executive Team to let me share our trade secrets. If I share our secrets with 100 people, it is likely that only 1-2 of them will actually implement any of them so I'm not threatened by sharing. I'm available for discussions to support ERE members any time.
James, one last point...I too am a Virgo, love long walks on the beach and enjoy black coffee. Not sure if I'm actually allergic to BS but I do prefer to avoid it whenever possible. While we may not agree 100% on this whole topic, I appreciate your input and I hope you have a great day!!!
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I would love to hire a virtual recruiter. We have a lot of projects and I am out of desks. My recruiting model is different. I need someone who knows biotech recruiting, and can work collaboratively. I would also like to hire someone who would like to work from home marketing. Someone who has experience working in marketing in a retained firm and lives in a large city would be perfect. I'm open.
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Thank you, Charles. Besides being a contract recruiter, I offer various types of good-quality virtual sourcing/recruiting services (both active and passive) for between $1,000-$2,500/mo. I would be very glad to work with any good-quality people anywhere at a price that would allow me to sell my services in this range to my clients. Please feel free to have them contact me.
Cheers, Keith Halperin keithsrj@sbcglobal.net
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DATE: 10/8/2008 1:38 p.m.
SUBJECT: RE: Hiring a Virtual Recruiter/Sourcer
MESSAGE: I know of a lot of talented folks that have lost their jobs due to the sourcing functions being sent to India. These are people with a ton of experience and are not that costly.
POSTED BY: Charles Hillman Per Your Request Research Founder
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Hi! I worked as a virtual recruiter a number of years back. I was paid hourly and was also given a bonus for each hire I made for the client. I would suggest checking references for strong work ethic and ability to work with little direction. I know of a GREAT person for you, if you need any referrals. Good luck! Kathleen Coughlin
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Hi! I worked as a virtual recruiter a number of years back. I was paid hourly and was also given a bonus for each hire I made for the client. I would suggest checking references for strong work ethic and ability to work with little direction. I know of a GREAT person for you, if you need any referrals. Good luck! Kathleen Coughlin
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Tom, Contract Recruiters that are good have a track record of filling jobs. You must check references to ensure you are hiring the right person.
If you find the right Contractor it can really be beneficial to you and your organization. There are many ways to monitor the working situation through reporting, metrics, weekly conference calls, daily contact etc. In terms of pricing, here in Boston where I am from, the rates are anywhere from $50.00 per hour and up for a good solid contractor. If you are still looking for someone, give me a call. I can recommend a few people that get the job done!
Stephanie Marks Boston, MA 508-881-1105
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Tom, Contract Recruiters that are good have a track record of filling jobs. You must check references to ensure you are hiring the right person.
If you find the right Contractor it can really be beneficial to you and your organization. There are many ways to monitor the working situation through reporting, metrics, weekly conference calls, daily contact etc. In terms of pricing, here in Boston where I am from, the rates are anywhere from $50.00 per hour and up for a good solid contractor. If you are still looking for someone, give me a call. I can recommend a few people that get the job done!
Stephanie Marks Boston, MA 508-881-1105
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Joshua and others,
It is great to have an open discussion here about outsourcing talent.
Reading Katie's story about how an experienced, educated professional can work independently (within our borders), I felt privileged to be a part of the ERE community. She didn't have an agenda. Katie is willing to play by the rules of big business by providing a no risk sourcing service to her clients.
Her fee would be comparable to off shored work right? Now if we call all things even as far as services and costs; what intangibles can we use to break the tie?
Who is knows the market better? Who knows geography better? Who can relate best to the talent? Who is more professional? Who is a native speaker?
This is the core of my statement that has yet to be refuted. My only exception would be Canadian citizens, since they can equally perform these intangibles.
P.S. I am Gen-Y, but I read books and don't play video games. My degree is in Business Administration. I'm a Virgo, I like long walks on the beach, black coffee, and am allergic to BS. Cheers!
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I know of a lot of talented folks that have lost their jobs due to the sourcing functions being sent to India. These are people with a ton of experience and are not that costly.
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Not sure if the obvious has been stated here but when it comes to sourcing and research - using a cost effective provider doesnt eliminate jobs - it creates global jobs. There isnt a single client engagement we have worked on where the company we service eliminated roles - they are just adding additional staff (seated outside the US) to get through a busy period. In the end, its about quality. The lowest cost provider who gets the hires wins, and always will - no matter where you sit. If your a really good sourcer...you shouldnt have trouble finding employment.
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James...you said, "Why is BP spending a fortune running ads on TV about how environmental good and helping to make new high tech batteries? Surely that is not part of their core business model. Some companies donate to non-profits and offer employees time off to volunteer. How does that directly help the bottom line? IT IS JUST PR!"
Do you think BP is LOSING money these days? When a company is flush with financial success, they can afford to do the things you mention above. However, when a company hits hard times and their shareholder values steadily drop, you see cutbacks in employee programs (retirement benefits slashed for CURRENT retirees) and reductions in workforce.
THe companies that grew during the Depression continued to advertise, keeping their strong image in the minds of consumers.
Forget about PR. Shareholder value is the #1 focus on any successful growing company. Period.
Show me a company that is losing shareholder value and sticks to their PR-related business model and I'll show you an acquisition/merger in-waiting.
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I may be late in my response however, I did want to share how I have been working as a virtual recruiter. I have 21 years of experience in recruiting with the past 17 years primarily in the IT industry. The past 8 years of my career were as an HR & Recruiting Director. When my company was reabsorbed back in-house to our parent company this past spring, I decided to take a leap of faith and venture out on my own. Basically wanted to put my work ethics and know-how to work to better control my own destiny. When I started recruiting in 1987 (dating myself) the Internet was not around. Recruiting was very grass roots and that provided a wonderful foundation on how to be resourceful. The Internet and job boards along with social networking sites have made finding candidates much easier but still a challenge to find the higher end niche resources during a tight economy. None the less...it is still very doable. Since June of this year, I have been working a straight commissioned virtual recruiting position for a company based out of Northern Virginia that provides niche specific Microsoft talent. I use my own laptop, printer and cell phone. The company has loaded their ATS on my PC and I work via VPN and OWA for Outlook. The company provides a $100 per month stipend that can be used towards my cell bill or any expense. I am paid 45% of a direct hire placement fee "IF" both the client and the candidate are mine. If another recruiter is providing the candidate for one of my job openings or I am providing a candidate for one of their clients, the 45% is split and I receive half. If the resources are contract only, I receive the same percentage method based upon the margin only. This working arrangement is not for the faint of heart or the undisciplined. Although I have a spouse to off-set the household expenses,my income is very much needed. When my job went away, I lost a $90K income. I worked 10 to 12 hour days and did not have the same ability to extend my annual income past what my base salary was no matter how hard I worked. This arrangement provides me with the vehicle to potentially generate even more than I earned previously as an HR & Recruiting Director. I must admit, had I not had the experience that I did in the early years starting out as a recruiter and by the way, that was straight commissioned too; I would have perhaps had second thoughts about taking the straight commissioned route. But knowing myself, my financial needs, track record as a recruiter and ability to focus and be disciplined with my day made all the difference. For the firm I work for as a 1099 resource, they have little to no risk and over head and the great potential for a very lucrative upside.
Katie Keene, PHR katie.keene@cox.net
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Good morning, All. As I view this conversation, what I find interesting is the different takes from different generations.
James, I am intrigued by your comments as I'm trying to get a better feeling of where each party is coming from. If I am reading your LinkedIn information correctly, you graduated from U of Florida in '04? (Here's a toast to hoping my Ga Dawgs can win our next matchup :P ) If I may ask, was your major Economics? Would you consider yourself Gen-Y or a Millenial? There is no wrong answer here - I'm just asking so that I may get a better understanding of your angle from a demographic/psychographic standpoint (as discussion boards don't help us put all the pieces together).
Personally, I have learned a great deal from listening to and observing those older than me. For example, my father is in his early 50s', and while we don't agree on everything ecnomic or political, he brings a unique paradigm to the table (largely shaped from the wisdom of not just reading about, but actually living through recessions, booms, oil crises, etc.) One of my mentors that I greatly look up to is in his mid 80s' - to say that he hasn't opened my eyes to issues I hadn't before considered would be quite the understatement. You can't put a pricetag on wisdom. Although some may say that listening to those much older than us leads to stale thinking, I disagree. History has a habit of repeating itself . . . and it is always beneficial for me to understand someone's mental map, or the way the individual perceives, understands, and interprets the surrounding world.
For example, I have enjoyed reading Jeff's contributions over the years - he's been in the game for a long time and seen a tremendous amount . . . so I'm always apt for respecting and absorbing his viewpoints. None of us have all the answers, but the truth is that the longer we mature professionally in a market, the more we learn and the more value we can add.
Note: This may sound ironic coming from me because I'm told that I have a way of writing that comes across as persuasive (sometimes to a fault). As discussion boards are one-sided means of communication, it's easy to come across as stolid in belief . . . but I believe that the world's most brilliant people are open to not necessarily "changing their minds", but moreover, "making new decisions based on new information." Now, let's get back to making deals and assisting our clients :)
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Mentions IBM: Read more here.
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Jeff,
I can't believe that we found something to disagree about.
The flaw in your argument is the confusion between services and goods. When we gave up manufacturing as the core of our employment, the focus became services.
The best example was IBM selling its PC business to focus on "Global Services." Their timing may have been a little late, but the move was a brilliant one.
Today, we are seeing losses of service jobs overseas. Where does that leave our economy? Where will job creation come from?
The other arguments made from Economics 101 that companies should only be concerned about shareholder wealth is flawed in more ways than I care to point out. Why is BP spending a fortune running ads on TV about how environmental good and helping to make new high tech batteries? Surely that is not part of their core business model. Some companies donate to non-profits and offer employees time off to volunteer. How does that directly help the bottom line? IT IS JUST PR!
Maybe they can tabulate the cost of the bad PR when it comes to off-shoring and out sourcing.
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keith,
I'm always looking for new Ideas's and outlets to find people in a niche industry. dsinclair@henkels.com
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I can't believe this conversation has returned.
Since the 1970's when Americans started to buy cheaper Japanese cars and American auto jobs started to disappear, this conversation rears its head.
Americans are voting with their wallets. They want less expensive products of equal or superior quality. When Japan was associated with crap, Americans bought American products.
When it became associated with superior products that cost less (think Sony, Toyota, Honda), they buy foreign goods.
Now think of your product association with China today -- reluctant to buy aren't we (in Asia, many American products are thought of like we think of Chinese goods).
Without the inclusion of quality into the equation, we are discussing nonsense. The argument that without paying more to make things here, no one will have the money to buy things is true.
But then again, no one will buy things that cost more than comparable products that cost less (see iPod vs. cheap knockoffs).
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Its true the goal of any company is to make a profit for its shareholders. Reducing cost by shipping jobs overseas may result in short term profits in the long term it will result in lower profits. You need to see the bigger picture. If people are making decent wages not only can they pay their bills they can purchase goods and services which equals increased revenues and profits for companies which results in higher dividends for the stockholders and larger bonuses for the executives. If all of the good paying jobs are shipped overseas, people will not be able to buy goods and services which equals decreased revenues for companies resulting in lower dividends for stockholders. The executives will still find a way to get their bonuses. Which option is best for businesses, consumers, stockholders and the American People?
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There is one truth in the world in which we live, and that is the "Golden Rule". "He who has the gold makes the rules."
The goal of any company is to make a profit for it's shareholders. They are NOT required to provide a lifestyle to their employees that supports a new house, new car, flat screen tv, free no-cost healthcare (for the employees entire family too!), vacations, dance lessons, soccer equipment, 300+ channels of cable/sat tv, etc. Middle-class America has had it made since 1945. We have 4 generations of middle-class Americans that have never missed a meal in their lives! Therefore, many think they are ENTITLED to all these things...not true!
Corporate America has one goal and one goal only...to make money. That will never change.
The good news is that as Americans, we have the freedom to pursue any of our dreams. Even though we aren't ENTITLED to a certain lifestyle, we are given the freedom to pursue ANY lifestyle we choose.
What path have you chosen?
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I agree with Josh- What we can do as sourcers is to focus on our high-value add functions and farm out the rest to an outfit similar to the one described below:
Thank You,
Keith Halperin keithsrj@sbacglabal.net 415.586.8265
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If you need virtual Recruiting/Sourcing,/Etc., services, we can help. There is a free trial period and if you are satisfied, a very reasonable monthly or weekly fee. Our teams offer these services:
I Active Sourcing & Calling/Resume Screening/Job Posting: A. A recruiter with experience in dealing with clients and candidates in the required industry will be made available as per hours and time zone required by you. B. VOIP-designated telephone line with a local number, voice mail and Caller ID. C. 24/7 support for work classified as 'urgent and top priority'. D. Personal monitoring of progress by senior management on a daily basis. E. Our fees: USD$2500 per month (based on a three month contract). F. As an alternative, we can do searches for you on Monster, Hotjobs, Careerbuilder, for USD$85 per week per position or less for longer periods or more positions. You keep all the resumes and candidates to hire now or to develop as a pipeline for future needs. We can also do a variety of postings on the various *sites. If you are dissatisfied with the searches for any reason, we offer a **100% refund for the first 3 days.
II. Marketing for candidates or �??on-the-bench�?? consultants that you need marketed and interviewed? Our fees: USD$1500 per month.
III. Passive Sourcing for candidates not on any job boards and from other/competing companies? Our fees: USD$1250 per month.
IV. Lead Generation for positions other companies have advertised on the Internet and compile information to enable you to map a market by skill, qualification, profession, region, industry segment, etc., so you may market your services more accurately to your prospective client companies, Our fees: USD$1000 per month.
V. Interview Scheduling and Coordinating: Do you need to schedule and coordinate interviews between candidates and the hiring team? Our fees: USD$800 per month.
* CareerBuilder, HotJobs, and Monster are the top three premium job boards. Please contact us for more details. ** Craig�??s List fees are the only exception to this policy. Please contact us for more details
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I don't think anyone is asking for justification as to where or what companies anyone has decided to partner with for offshoring. Common sense dictates that the cost savings firms achieve through offshoring goes to reducing costs to Clients and/or increasing margins for the offshoring organization. That's what we hear the media classifying as "greed" - it's greed that helped land us in the sub-prime mess we're in.
The latest post came up after the Dow tanked 778 points and I personally saw the market value of my portfolio drop considerably. I lost a lot of money yesterday and it hurt, but the market goes through fluctuations . . . and I have time. My grandparents don't -- That's a problem that hits home.
Job loss is also a huge problem, and we'll have to agree to disagree if anyone doesn't see it this way. Let's stay tuned to our job loss report that will be coming out this Friday to see if I'm right or if I'm wrong. Don't take my word for it, though - the data will tell the true story (as it always does). Speculation is for the birds when it comes to seeing large numbers of people out of work.
I have faith that, over time, the real margins and value created in our business will be in providing services that can't be easily duplicated. If they can, then you're in the commodity business . . . and I can assure you that once you're in that predicament, there will always be someone that can do it cheaper than you.
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All,
I love that people here are writing about solutions. That shows an awareness that a problem does exist. I spoke with several members of ERE after my inflammatory comments. My simple answer to most was...
If people had jobs that paid well enough for both food and shelter, they would be paying their mortgages and we would not be in this situation. [See Maslow's hierarchy of needs]
Therefore, if the gov't wants to do something that will help, it should begin with job creation in the U.S. Our economy is now service based with consumer spending topping all other indicators. Need proof; Right after 9/11 the President told us to go out and spend money.
The Beijing Olympics may be seen in the future as the high water mark for the world's economy. A massive show of excessive spending in order to show off their might. But, if people stop buying Chinese (or any other nation for that matter) goods, much of their economy will suffer as well. I guess time will tell.
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I'm not sure anyone wants to be told where to do business and where to get their resources from. The company we partner with for our offshore internet research is based right here in Scottsdale, Arizona, USA. They employ more than 10,000 people, 2,000+ of which are in the US. So should the government be able to tell them they can't have a business model that includes multiple choices of service here and abroad? Should their clients not be able to choose how much they want to pay and what level of service they want to receive?
There are many hard working American's right here! But not all of them are willing to do certain jobs for certain pay. So, should companies have to pay more just to keep the jobs in the US? Who will pay to train these people to do these jobs that people overseas already know how to do? Maybe we can talk to Congress and have part of the $700B bail out fund used for setting up facilities/infrastructure here in the US and training people to do the jobs that are being off shored. And maybe part of that $700B could also supplement the incomes of the Americans to do these jobs for less, significantly less, per hour than they would normally consider working for. And please don't just assume that because someone is currently unemployed they'd be willing to do anything. Because most of the time, they have demands of what and when and how much. If the pay isn't right they'll turn it down. If the company isn't just right they'll turn it down. If the work isn't exactly what they want to do they'll turn it down. Not every one and not all the time but it happens more than you would think. Let's face it. Some of the jobs that are getting outsourced pay so low it isn't worth an American having to commute to and from the office to do it.
As for the communication skills, there are many different kinds of jobs being off shored and many different places they are being off shored to. Everyone has choices. I would hope that anyone considering off shoring would do their due diligence and investigate all the choices before hiring a company to do work for them that will represent them in anything less than a professional manner.
Off shoring and outsourcing isn't the cause of the economic crisis in the US today. And if every US based company stopped off shoring all jobs today, it wouldn't fix the economy here. So let's not make suggestions that it would.
As for loving our country and being patriotic, I LOVE THE USA!!! There, make you feel better? But honestly, we've done some really crappy things in the past several years. Living on the soil doesn't mean you have to be proud of the way the country is being run. And, I'm certainly not proud of the way the country is being run. But, I'm voting soon and I hope you all are too! Voting is the one way we American's have to voice our opinion and really make a difference.
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Just wondering....have any of you thrift-minded folks who are so eager to farm out your research and candidate sourcing work to Third World countries had the occasion lately to actually TALK TO people at those Third World call center operations? You know..the ones you have to deal with when trying to call your credit card customer service function...or your internet tech support function...or your motor club, or other customer service functions of American companies. I have -- at least I have tried to, when attempting to comprehend what was being said through thick accents, and keep my patience with the annoying, scripted, robotic communication style one often encounters at these call centers. Is THAT the image and the level of communication skill and interpersonal effectiveness you want representing YOUR company? Not mine!
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James,
I don't disagree with you about keep jobs within our borders. It may not be for everyone, but it's a personal choice I make. Above and beyond the state of politics that go with it, with our economy in such disrepair and so many people in need of jobs it just makes sense to do what I can personally do to contribute to a solution. There are plenty of qualified, hard-working people right outside my front door. I don't feel the need to look outside my borders. I don't know that it is a sense of patriotism on my part, just feels more like common sense. I can either contribute to the problem, or the solution. Contributing to the solution just seems the best option and choice for me. I do believe in the pay-it-forward philosophy. And I'm certain that my resolve will pay off for me in the end.
If all American businesses would put the same faith in the American workforce it would solve at least half of our economic crisis. And hopefully we will all show up in November to try to resolve the second half of our crisis.
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This conversation is quite the interesting one, considering we are in an election year and have been losing domestic jobs at an alarming clip. Per the Bureau of Labor Statistics:
"The number of unemployed persons rose by 592,000 to 9.4 million in August, and the unemployment rate increased by 0.4 percentage point to 6.1 percent. Over the past 12 months, the number of unemployed persons has increased by 2.2 million and the unemployment rate has risen by 1.4 percentage points, with most of the increase occurring over the past 4 months." "In August, the number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks or more) rose by 163,000 to 1.8 million, an increase of 589,000 over the past 12 months. The newly unemployed--those who were jobless fewer than 5 weeks--increased by 400,000 over the month."
Look, I'm not going to sit here and make a partisan political statement about this, but what I will say is that we have a problem on our hands here -- a very serious problem.
What is happening, James, is that you're making a statement that echo's many Americans' sentiments, so much so that job creation may be the primary driver of who they vote for. Each Presidential candidate has discussed tax cuts for organizations that keep and create jobs here in the U.S. The issue, however, is that the responses you're receiving here are largely from reps of firms that are outsourcing jobs. There are many people on ERE that would 'side' with your stance (given how this is a topic of huge significance right now in our current economy), but you're not going to get a response representative of the whole here. You're going to get responses mainly from positions of defensiveness . . . and mainly from firms that are offshoring jobs. Again, this is not a political statement, but a fact.
Now as a brief disclaimer, I don't believe the current state of our economy is resulting directly from offshoring - we must remember that organizations compete for capital. As shareholders and investors, we decide what organizations to loan our capital to . . . and the companies that win out most often are those that deliver the highest returns. Some of those superior-return delivering firms offshore in an effort to reduce costs. The way to influence this is through awareness and who we invest in as shareholders. Having a discriminatory eye toward what companies you invest in will drive shifts in executive behavior. I'll leave the capital issue at that.
What I will say, however, is that our loss of jobs is, again, a serious problem . . . and we need to create new ones. Our middle class isn't shrinking, it's shrunk to a point of opaqueness. If we don't start creating new jobs and get our economy back on track, not only will we continue to have major problems, but so will our children and their children. Arguing about whether offshoring is good or bad isn't going to solve the problem - it's overall job LOSS that is the issue (which comes in many forms), and I hope we can figure out a solution.
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Offshoreing is resulting in loss of good paying jobs around the country. In the short term it may be helping the bottom line of Corporate America but in the long run I believe it will hurt the American people and businesses.
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Interesting discussion about the current state of our economic meltdown here. ****** ****** Don't miss this Saturday's MagicMethod Midnight Moves Sourcing Class over on RBC at midnight (EST) - we're going to talk about things you can do with the telephone in the middle of the night! �??I at midnight by the clock may creep into your bed.�?? ~ William Butler Yeats quotes (Irish prose Writer, Dramatist and Poet. Nobel Prize for Literature in 1923. 1865-1939)
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I was definitely not aware that off-shoring was the cause of the current state of our economy. If we believe that, then we have an awareness problem on top of a imminent depression on our hands.
Simultaneously, I find it strange to tie this issue to patriotism or nationalism, one thing has nothing to do with the other.
One can off-shore as many business process as one wants and love their country as much as anyone.
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Hope and All,
I am amazed that no one here is willing to defend my "hire a local" first principle. I did not say Citizen only or even Visa holder, just try to keep the $ within our borders. Not a single person here has the convictions to take a stand?
We are in worse shape than I feared.
Fun facts about Indonesia: I've been to Jakarta. Indonesia represents the worst example of capitalism. Did your company deal with Suharto? It is estimated he embezzled $15�??35 billion during his Military rule. What about the terrorist groups that America is currently helping Indonesia fight?
With a pop. est. 23.6 MM, Jakarta is the 4th biggest city. Indonesia is 143rd out of 180 countries in the "Corruption Perceptions Index" and 49.0% of the population live on less than $2 per day. When they ran out of Forrest to sell, they started to exploit their people.
When the corporations decided to move jobs to the newest, low-wage, developing country, you will have time to think about the cost of outsourcing on your people.
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I have worked as an internal sourcer. I was paid by the hour, as a Contract Sourcer/Recruiter. Productivity is easy to monitor with weekly and monthly reports of:
Calls made Emails sent Candidates identified Candidates Screened Candidates Sent to recruiters Candidates Internviewed Candidate Offers Candidate Hires Candidate Start Dates
Using a Research Databases (like Encore) can easily track all of this information, as long as the sourcer enters in all names and status information, as he/she is working.
Colleen Geehan
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hmmmmm, Suggesting someone is not patriotic because they either (a) Provide outsourcing services or (B) Their companies engage outsourcing providors is offensive to me. I have been in the outsourcing business for over 20 years- starting with one of the pioneers of the movement- Xerox. While Xerox offered their services employing American workers, I now offer top quality services with highly educated Indonesian workers. Not only that, but we are a "Green" Energy Star compliant business- meaning that we operate under a sustainable business model to preserve the resources on this planet- which reminds me....We are in a global business world, and that won't change. My philisophy is that if we help each other, we can all be succesful. I offer a top quality service for a fair price, and thankfully my customers have the choice to hire US based resourcers- if they chose, OR the choice of outsourcing their work to our firm. Americans like choices. We help not only the US business "climate" but we also give back to the Indonesian community where our workers live. We at Global SRVCS are very very proud of our model- helping the great patriotic people of the US, while also bettering another part of OUR world, Bali Indonesia, and offering highly educated and talented people the chance to earn a living and be part of the global economy- all the while working under a sustainable business model. What is un-patriotic about that? Seems like the "implications" are success is spread wider and farther and the net is that will benefit us all in this global marketplace. Wishing you ALL success,
A Very American Hope Blaythorne ;) PS- My office is right up the street from where George Washington crossed the Deleware River.........
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Amanda,
Yes, we are in business to get the most results for the least cost. My point is a matter of National pride / Nationalism (yes liberals have national pride).
"Human Capital" is the assumption that skills are interchangeable from person to person or nation for that matter. People stop being cogs the higher the skill set or when personality, cultural, and regional differences are factored.
We must consider the implications of outsourcing as a cost not just a savings. When we don't train, mentor, or offer advancement opportunities we end up with low skilled workers. That perpetuates the problem.
I am not suggesting isolationism, just patriotism.
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James, if the state of the American economy could be explained by companies who off shore tasks, we'd be in a whole different situation than we are in. If only that simple explanation could make it all better...
I don't believe companies off shore tasks simply because it's cheaper. Perhaps some do. But I believe that companies outsource (not offshore, but outsource)tasks to whomever can do it best for the least amount of money. If company A can do it for $10 per hour but the results are 70% of what company B can do it for at $12, perhaps company B is a better choice.
The bottom line is there need to be choices and competition and off shore is part of that. America has the same opportunity to provide the same high level of services at the same affordable rates. America has the same opportunity to provide the services at the best value to the clients. Right?
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3 Cheers to Charles!!!
How far does the DOW have to drop before we begin to see the toxic effects of outsourcing on our economy? In can be off-site and local at the same time.
No offense to foreign entities but if you have any faith in the American Dream, then you can not in good faith lease that dream to the lowest bidder.
Today I became a stakeholder in AIG as did all Americans. Would you like to buy insurance?
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Hi Tom/Lorrie,
In either of the cases of you opting for an offshore partner or an onsite resource, I would recommend gain first hand experience via free trial. We will be more than happy to do a 15day trial for you.
Regards, Rahul Pandit Director- RPO Services & Business Development SITI Corporation 4500 Great America Parkway, Ste. 120 Santa Clara, CA 95054 Tel: 408-654-6482 www.siti.com rahul.pandit@siti.com
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I too have been a Virtual Consultant in past roles and I am currently seeking a new opportunity. I have worked as a W-2 in the past but would be open to a contracting role.
I find the advantage of working in a virtual office is that you can spend more time on specifically searching for candidates at different hours of the day, rather than a specific 9 to 5 role, I find myself searching out candidates at off hours and setting up a call list for the next day.
Thanks,
Matt
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Hello. I have been working as a Virtual Recruiting Consultant for 2 years and absolutely love it! In fact, I am seeking my next opportunity, so please keep me in mind. I am W-2, but I understand that some companies do 1099 in the virtual arena. I think most virtual recruiters are hourly, as am I. I am so much more productive working virtually in my home office than if I were at the office. There are many less distractions.
Have a great day!
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Why utilize an India based RPO when there are a ton of quality researchers right here in the USA that can do the job.
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Tom,
I have worked as a Virtual Sourcer/Recruiter for the past 4 yrs now. What I normally do is at the end of my day, I send an email with a list of all the tasks I have completed in the day. This is hard to lie about especially if you have an ATS in place, you will see that activity of the sourcer. I also use Yahoo IM to stay in contact with my employer and they can also see when I am online and get ahold of during my hours. Also, I work on a 1099 basis, so there is very little paper work involved.
I am currently looking to pick up about 15-20 hrs of work right now and would be glad to help out. I can also give you some great references to verify my track record. Please feel free to email me anytime at kelly_schultz13@yahoo.com. My rates are usually a lot cheaper than most as well.
Kelly Schultz
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Tom/Lorrie, I would suggest doing your due diligence and investigate RPO first. Depending on what tasks you'll need these people to perform, there are companies already established with infrastructure and the knowledge and training on how to do this, and you pay per hour or per project depending on the RPO vendor. I'd be happy to share our experience in using an India based and a Philippines based RPO for internet research. We're a large TPR firm with 60+ full time, on site recruiters, and only have so much room to grow. So I understand the need to seek out virtual employees. Feel free to email me directly at amanda.blazo@govig.com or call me at (480)718-6101. I actually operate the India and Philippines based RPO's but promise not to give you a "sales pitch", rather will share real life experiences and statistics we've experienced here at Govig & Associates. Knowledge is power and you need to be in a powerful position to make a decision like this.
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Hi Tom,
Its very nice to have virtual recruiter this model is working wonderfully for us we are controlling it through automation i.e Cbiz One
P.S. if you want more detail please contact manpower@airtelmail.in or 91-9893283228 Regards Amit
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I am currently a Virtual Recruiter and have been a remote employee 7 out of the last 10 years.
Number of hours work - You can get what ever you want, if you do hourly. Most are looking for a minimum of 20 hrs / week. We have a few that do jobshare @ 20 hrs a week and they get full benefits.
You should be able top tell if they are doing their job by their results. You might consider starting them as a 1099 at a higher pay rate and then convert to employee with benefits after a period of time.
I would highly recommend hiring someone who has experience working remotely as it takes a certain skill set to make the jump.
I would also recommend more contact early on so that they feel plugged into the organization. Maybe even 1 -2 weeks at corp office to meet everyone find out your processes and what resources are available.
There is a Virtual Recruiter group in Linkedin that you might want to consider posting your position to ( free )
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Tom, instead of going through all that trouble why wouldn't you hire a vendor/rpo like us? Hiring a person consists of payroll meetings, taxes not to mention if the person will work out or not. If your looking for pure sourcing of candidates that your people can call reach out to me.
sales@sharkstrike.com
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