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I've been in the staffing industry for many years and have had all the same "gatekeeper" problems everyone else has when trying to contact passive candidates. This is a major problem when I have to call 30 or 40 people at the same company, where the receptionist starts recognizing me.
Over the years I have learned a lot about different voicemail systems, and have even read a few manuals on specific systems. Because of this, I am able to press certain keys during my voicemail sessions to transfer myself to other extensions, and even obtain extension numbers from the system itself?
Are there any legal issues with this? Please remember, I am not randomly trying passwords to listen to anyone's messages, but rather, using published functions of certain voicemail systems I recognize.
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it is funny reading these discussions when u return from vacation
David, I know you that 3rd party recuiters often do not know what it is like to sit in your seat but often know better than you how to do your job (btw, the reverse is often true,too).
whaat little I know after 40 years of this is that we need one another, in good times AND in bad times, too.
Jeff Altman The Big Game Hunter
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Like many of the others, I have been in this business a long time and have been on all sides of the equation.
We (HR Nimrods) are not road blocks to external recruiting sources, we are a filter. We manage the contact between the external firms and the hiring managers so that the hiring managers actually have time to do their jobs. We partner the firms that provide the services and support our organization needs. We partner with firms that are willing to partner with us. This HAS to be a 2 way street for the relationship to work. You have rules as far as how you do business (at least, I am assuming that you have rules), you track when you submit resumes, who it is submitted to, and how long at submission is valid for, etc. We are no different. We have to have processes and procedures for when resumes are submitted and by who, which positions we will accept external submissions on, etc. If you are not willing to play by the rules that we have, why should we play by the rules that you have? How would you feel if I went around you and called a candidate that you submitted on my own and extend them an offer and did not give you the credit, or fee? After you threatened legal action, you would probably not do business with us again. It is the same for us, if you do not play the game, we will find another firm that will. I hate to break it to you, but you are not alone in trying to do business with us. I probably average 2-5 calls a week from agencies looking to partner with us. I tend to choose the agencies that have the best track record (and yes, I call references for every agency that I work with) of working with a company, not a history of working around them. You are the vendor, we are the client, we do not have to find a way to get you to work with us, you have to give us a reason why we should work with you. And Nick, you have made my job a little easier. I now know of one more firm that I do not need to waste my time talking to.
David
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Ohh...SNAP!! lol..
That was a great response/tutorial Marvin.
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To all the paper pushers: May 2009 be a great for all of you and hopefully your company can get the bailouts the automakers received.
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Relationships +Integrity+ Experience = Longevity and Respect.
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Happy Holidays everyone!
In the spirit of the holiday's perhaps we should keep the discussions here a little more professional and a little less insulting.
If you can't take the heat of passionate responses from those you insult by negative generlizations and comments, perhaps you should keep the comments to yourself.
This is not directed at any one person but a general request that we keep the ERE discussions more professional and helpful to the community represented here.
I hope you all have a great holiday season and a very happy, prosperous and profitable new year!!!
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Marvin, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I also have been in this game for a long time and have worked on every side of the fence, so I think we share a perspective that is perhaps foreign to people like Nick (no offense).
It's during tough times like these that we see who the real recruiters are - the ones who can weather the storm and even thrive during it, are the ones who can partner, consult, and build strong relationships with customers by moving away from the transactional business model.
Nick - I hope you're still in the game by the time the economy picks up again.
Happy Holidays!
-------------------- Marcelo S. Demand Worldwide, Inc.
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Give it a rest Marvin. Your paper is piling up!
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As an "HR Nimrod" I would have to take exception to the paper pushing characterization presented by Nick Cobb (but in the spirit of the holiday season, I am going to let that slide). I am not certain what type of recruiting practice you have, but it certainly sounds like you missed an opportunity to expand your business by partnering with �??HR Nimrods.�?? I grew up old school recruiting and spent 25 years on your side of the fence. I used to advocate going around HR & other gatekeepers. Using that approach, I made a lot of placements, but did not build a clientele. My big learning was by partnering with HR, I build a client base that allowed me to survive several downturns in the economy. Those same HR partners referred me to other organizations and my practice thrived. Nick, I notice that you brand yourself as a �??proactive executive recruiter.�?? Perhaps 2009�??s proactivity will be the year of partnering with the HR Nimrod? You may find that HR partners will give you all the access you need to decision makers. And you may find the paper that we are pushing is yours.
Marvin Smith Talent Community Development Microsoft
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A couple of points.
1 - As far as I know, it is perfectly legal to use an automated phone system to access people in a company without speaking to the receptionist. From a technology standpoint, that is the purpose of the system.
2 - As an HR Professional, it is patently obvious, despite the attempt to recover/spin to the contrary, that Nick's use of the word "nimrod" in his initial post and in lower case is derogatory. And being one to make lemonade from a lemon, I want to thank Nick and The Pepper Ridge Group for self-selecting out of the running for fees we pay to our search partners.
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With that def., I want to be a nimrod too!
Hahahahaa.
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nimrod /"nImrQd/ · n. a skilful hunter. �?? ORIGIN C16: from Heb. NimrZ-, the name of the great-grandson of Noah, known for his skill as a hunter (see Gen. 10:8-9).
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Why the name calling, Nick? hrnimrods? Not very professional. Happy Holidays to you just the same.
an hrnimrod-
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No offense, but please don't share. I would love to know a few of your tricks, but they wouldn't be tricks if you shared them with everyone. Especially Stephanie w/ LexisNexis.
No offense Stephanie, but your company is in the business of compiling information and making it easily accessible.
Your exploits are 100% legal in my book (I have no legal background, unless you count Judge Wapner).
Write an ebook about it if you want and make a few sheckles.
Happy Holidays to everyone here at ERE!
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Hi all T is right that by sourcing from a company, we save the company the individuals salary & benefit expenses.
On the other hand, we offer the company a chance to become more competitive and improve their talent pool by replacing the candidate with a higher performing person.
That's my story & I'm sticking to it
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Stephanie:
First call a company and dial anyones extension. Find someone who isn't in and transfers you to voice mail. Buy pressing "0" and "#" you can get into an options list. Sometimes it may be "0" and "*" or other (you have to experiment with their phone system). Once in options, go to the company phone directory and find the ext. number you want. Again, you have to experiment. Each company and phone system maybe diff., but everything is accessible via their phone system.
And NO, none of this is illegal.
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One of the very first things one learns in "sales" and providing talent "is" sales, is to deal with the decision maker. Why would anyone want to deal with paper shufflers (hr nimrods) who have no clue? Anyway you can make contact with the "decision maker" is of prime importance. And if you don't, someone else will! Remember: Most gatekeepers have no clue. Do not alienate them, but circumventing them is just part of your job.
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I'd like to know how to bypass the system. Can you share that with us? Or is it listed somewhere on the internet that I can go out and learn how to do that?
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Funny Jay. Also, when you recruit the person, you'll save the company the money they had been spending on salary and benefits, another value of your work...
(And happy festivus to all!)
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Being a Politicaly correct person, I wish all of you a Happy Holiday.
Now, Craig, I have used the same techniques over the last several years. I frankly do not think there is anything wrong with that approach. If the company wants to keep phone extensions totally private, then it needs to stop using them on business cards and eliminate the information from the phone system.
Besides, you are saving the target company money. When you bypass the gate keeper, that frees her up to wait on other callers, instead of you , improving her productivity.
Anyway, that is my opinion
Jay
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