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Gen Y'd

Gen Y'd is the always interesting, frequently random, often unfiltered, sometimes goofy, occasionally genius and never apologetic – random thoughts of my brain today on topics from recruiting to social media to whatever else I care about.

Why Gen Y 'chicks' and Old White Guys from F500's don't see Eye to Eye follow this blog post

posted by on July 14, 2009

Yes, this is about you - Jack Walch.  And, maybe it isn't all of Gen Y 'chicks' - some of us are tolerant of being talked down to and demeaned for chosing to have a family.  Being told that we (women) can still have "a nice life, but the chances of going to the top on that path" is slim may be OK for you, but I'm not buying it.  The rest of us are really tired of a guy who got to the top because of an amazing woman behind him telling us that we can only get to the top in the business world if we steer clear of the mommy path.

A bit of honesty here - at one point in my life, I believed it.  I thought that my world was going to revolve around climbing the corporate ladder - pinstripe suits and 4" heels in tow.  I thought the title on my business card, the number of people I was managing, the budget I was responsible for, actually mattered.  When I was in my last semester of college, I found out I was going to be a mom. I was terrified that any hope of climbing that corporate ladder was gone.  I thought I had to chose between being a mom and a great employee. I thought I had to chose where I wanted my life to go and where I wanted to be in 10 years in an instant. 

It wasn't very long before I realized that I didn't want the corporate F1000 ladder they wanted me to climb. The ladder, well, that is the easy way - with nice, scheduled - evenly spaced rungs telling me when I can take the next step.  Knowing what I would be doing with each passing year... Not for me.

I wanted to take a corporate hike up the tallest hill - the hard way - with rocks & mud & bugs.  No ladder, no heels, no games - just sheer will and determination to try and become the best at what I do.  I wanted to climb half dome - not to the top of a skyscraper downtown.

Jack Welch's comments at SHRM about "women" and the "consequences" of their actions really just made me appreciate how far we have come in the last 30 years since Gen Y was born.  It is likely true that to be a leader and an organization today (as a woman) - you likely had to make some pretty tough decisions about kids & family. I have heard the stories from my grandmother about the "role" women used to play.  Luckily - she taught me never to play by the rules - especially in the world of work.  

For those of us in that 30 & under crowd, we should be thanking all of those women who have come before us as those battles have been fought and a lot has been sacraficed for us to be able to have the balance that we want...and for some of us, it is still that corporate ladder - and that is ok - just thank them for the glass ceiling they broke along their way.

Check out the article that got me fired up a bit here

boomers geny work life balance
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27 comments

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  • 1 point 4 months ago

    My opinion on the subject is quite simple: If Jack Welch wants to ignore all sorts of talented people who don't fit his hamster wheel, then his loss is my gain.

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    I was never a fan of hamster wheels.  A fortune 500 would NEVER want me and I would never want them! We have a mutual understanding with that respect.

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    I too resent Jack Walsh's comments, as they are exaggerated, not based in reality and present a broad-sweeping generalization, which perpetuates a negative assumption in the minds of some business people who think Jack Walsh's word is the gospel truth.  I remember, as a kid, my mother raising us on her own, while holding down two jobs.  I rarely saw her on the weekdays and though she was obviously tired on the weekends, she still took time out to spend with her children and give us the comforts and care a mother should provide for her children.  Yes, having children and raising them may make the journey to the top of the corporate ladder more challenging for a mother, however she CAN still have her cake and eat it too.  Jack Walsh's comments are irresponsible and potentially detrimental as a fales stereotype.  You're out of touch with today's new business leaders Jack!

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    "...she CAN still have her cake and eat it too."

    NOT sure about that.  I once read a statement by Barbara Walters.  She said somethin' akin to:

    A woman can have two of three things:

    Children

    Husband

    Career

    Two, not three. 

    Personally, at my ripe old age, havin' done all of it, I think it's pretty much true.

     

     

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Only two?  Not a hard decision.  lol

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    LOL.  Really!  I know which ones I'd choose.

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Here's to the day we stop stereotyping the people who stereotype. Jack Welch no more represents "old White guys" than I do. lol

    Everyone has the potential of acting like an asshole. And we should be categorizing them as assholes rather than ascribing their behavior to age cohorts let alone race, gender or other physical characteristics.

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    I totally agree - but this made for a lot more people reading the blog ;)

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    I know. Youthful indiscretion. Love ya

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    The youthful indiscrestion will have to go away one day, I know.  In the mean time, I will say things that create a lot of conversation in order to  learn a lot from the responses of the people I admire and respect - like yourself - and people who I would have otherwise had no prior interaction with.

    See you in September!

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Ahh! Wisdom. I always learn from the conversations you create and enjoy that you share your point of view. I guess we see eye-to-eye. 

  • 1 point 4 months ago

     At the end of our lives it's not likely that we're going to say 'I wish I would have worked more'. The only thing that you leave on this planet at the end of the day that really matters is what you've contributed to another human being.

    In interviews with numerous CEOs and senior execs ( male and female)of fortune 500 companies the book  Corporate Confidential, What it Really Takes to Get to the Top reveals the summarized 'collateral damages' reported by these top execs as the price paid getting to and maintaining these senior corporate positions. 

    Overall they reported on the stress of being on the job 24/7, neglected health, failed marriages, missing chunks  of time with family (entire childhoods) and more specifically their lack of relationship with their children, blaming themselves for their childrens personal stuggles, lack of personal time, no outside friendships, hobbies, outside interests, guilt, remorse, regret, ill health, and loneliness.

     When it came to thinking about retirement they ponder what they'll do with the time having no friends or interests to pursue after they have their life back. While some justified all of this as a fair trade there was an overall sense of having been sold a bill of goods, that it really wasn't all it was cracked up to be and had they known what the price was in advance would have rethunk it.

    Just because one can, doesn't necessarily mean one must or should go for having it all. With what we know today, all isn't really that attractive because it means all the stress, all the pressure, responsibility, expense and more.  Maybe having it 'all' needs to be redefined, not so much as in quantity but quality. It definitely is a personal choice, this All thing.

    I believe the women's movement overall gave us the ability to think outside of the old world traditions and predetermined destiny, to actually take control of our lives and contemplate our purpose, desires and gifts for ourselves. To think in terms of choice, beyond that of which man to marry.

     We've also lost something in the process to some extent and I believe there are those who choose the traditional and see value, purpose, balance and joy in that role. The movement of the 60's forced open the doors and created inroads to choices formerly prohibited to women, and while the pendulum swung to the polar opposite of the norm at the time, in counter to the severe limitations we were subject to, we now can truly consider numerous options, weigh the cost, risk, consequences and decide whether or not we are willing to pay the toll for our life choices and ambitions. 

    Some 40 years later *gasp* we are now able to more adequately assess what these sacrifices, costs and consequences are and the effect of these choices on the world and people around us. The new guard of women can make more accurate calculations of what they're choosing from the trailblazing of others and headway made over the decades. Still, however, some things are mutually exclusive not because of gender but because its physically impossible to be in two places at once and have 100% undivided focus, attention, presence and performance on two things at the same time. We haven't evolved into superhumans yet. We can patch up areas of absence or plan for alternative backup provided by others, at additional cost, but you are not truly performing both at the highest level you would be otherwise without the help. No judgement here, just observation. Choice again. There's something to be said for balance in my opinion.

    To Patrick's post; No matter how far we get in this process there are those of both genders who will abuse and use their positions to forward a personal agenda, treat others with bias masked as remedy, act unfairly and reap the consequences leaving a path of discord and destruction in their wake.  To play the 'new rules', intended to create equality, against others in some misguided sense of 'carrying the torch' for the bra burners of the 60's is to not have learned anything at all from the lessons of the past.

    When a woman speaking from a position of leadership does or says something that a man in her position would find himself deep in litigation over or at least met with extreme backlash, she proves herself to be a poor leader, ignorant, unenlightened, out of touch and unworthy of the title she holds, particularly in the HR dept. No better than the 'good ol boys' system she's apparently getting back at.

      The women's movement was about equal rights, not female superiority, at least not the mainstream of the movement. The fringe extremist who gravitates to HR is to be feared. Sadly I've met a few of these control freaks personally and it would make a funny Norman Lear sitcom to view them at work. Very Archie Bunkeresque as they loudly voice their great cause as one of the original 'freedom fighters' they spout slogans of the era, claiming sisterhood, scolding female employees from later generations for behaving un-sisterlike, while simultaneously pitting female employees against the other through lies, innuendo and gossip. Acting in complete oblivion to the purpose of HR they tore down morale, broke trust, confidence, and about every law possible while concocting twisted justifications and creepy schemes to do as they would to others, generally made the workplace hell.

     They threaten 'disciplinary action' if anyone dare speak up in opposition. They were really the antithesis of HR and daily showed a lack of leadership, competence, ability, fairness, and confidence which ultimately destroyed the department which rippled through the revenue and growth of the company leading to class action. Patrick, though its of little consolation you're better off out of there in the long run for health's sake though I fully understand the gravity of your position.

     

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Oh my gosh. (laughing) Valicia, well said.

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Great Response!! Thank you so much for sharing your opinion.  Check out my posting on cruitertalk.com about why companies should be shifting to focus more on Hybrid Moms (Part time) http://www.cruitertalk.com/2009/07/06/sarah-white/

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Toward the end of last year I sat in a “team meeting” with a younger HR Manager who discussed the company’s recent need to cut staff to remain profitable. As she finished her dissertation on the quickly diminishing talent needs for the end of that year and 1st quarter of the coming year, I will never forget what she said: “On these remaining 30 jobs we are going to focus on Women and minorities.” Then she motioned with her hand out in front of her like a sweeping broom and said with a smile on her face, “And, no white males!”

    I kept a “poker face” but cringed at her audacity. Whether she was simply naïve or blatantly disrespectful, I received her Christmas present of a couple weeks notice and was laid off right before the holidays.

    Her team went to 100% female when a few months later my 52 year old boss negotiated a deal to get out. Earlier, he proudly boasted they would have to “drag him out on a stretcher” because of his particular technical skill set. And, I would have to agree the company would be completely short-sighted letting this extremely valuable resource go.

    So here sits an “old white guy” with three kids who can’t pay his mortgage payment after NEVER missing any payment EVER in his life! Meanwhile, a whole group of very relevant older guys/gals are “axed” while younger “cheap” workers are left to flounder, over their heads...sending corporate service levels plummeting.

    But for the record “I get it.” Just remember, old white guys are people too. And, we have smart daughters like you! We were doing the work for at least 20 years before you were making your opinion known. We did more things right than we did wrong given the country we live in, and most of us wanted equality for all as well.

    If you just take an inventory of today's TV commercials, "sit-coms," and cartoons you'd be shocked at how absolutely stupid, unwise, and irresponsible the mature white man is portrayed. Just because it may seem to be someone else's turn to lead, we don’t want to be less equal, less valuable, and certainly not irrelevant.

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Discrimination is alive and well.

    In the name of "political correctness" and "diversity" it has become OK to level the cannons of public opinion through individuals who have gained position and power against anyone else who does not "fit" their filtered viewpoints.

    Thus it's now OK to discriminate against white, male, older, etc., etc. The consequences are, relatively speaking, minimal.

    Wrong is still wrong. And no amount of posturing can change that.

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Patrick -

    I feel for you - honestly I do.  At the same time, I think you feel as though I would condone the sexist acts that were done in that department.  In all honesty, I find them disgusting and no better than a 70 year old white guy telling me that I can not succeed to the top if I choose to have a family.  

    I can assure you I am the farthest from some spoiled white girl from the suburbs that you will ever find - I was raised by my grandparents and have more respect for our older generations than many others my age do - I know the value they can bring to the table and the knowledge they can share.  In fact the person I look up to most in this industry is an "old  more distinguished white guy!"

    I am a believer in the best people getting the job/college admission/etc without regard to race, gender, etc. I can expand on this much further...but I won't.

    You are reading me as if I am her - I am only upset by his audacity that women "can't" have work life balance.  I can assure you that had I been in that meeting - I would have handed over resignation right away.  How do I know - I've seen it happen before and left the organization within 1 hour severence package in hand and no apologies for it.  

    While I am a fan of women succeeding, I am not a fan of it being done at the expense of the more qualified candidate (white males included!)  In fact women that push a "women" agenda drive me nuts - as recruiters we should be working in the best interest of the organization - not an agenda we want to promote.  (I should say I have seen this done to promote the following agenda's in the name of 'Diversity':  Women, Minorities, Certain Schools, Sexual Orientation, Age - both only young workers AND only older workers....and the list goes on)

    This article was directed not at the mature white guys at F500's like yourself - but the ones who think that I am still not able to advance past mid-management because I have kids.  The ones that think that I may be too "emotional" to make decisions.  The ones that just don't get it - raised in the generation where women were coming into their own and they didn't see the value of letting that happen.  The ones who think I should be vaccuming in heels and pearls and have dinner ready when they walk in the door and a perfectly clean house all the time and dinner parties with the boss that I can whip up on a moments notice and basically be a stepford wife.

    And, I totally agree that the inventory today on TV is skewed to view Dads (more than mature white men) as idiots, klutz's, and stereotypes.  But we also see that women should be a size 2 after having kids and marry the dufus's. ;)

  • 1 point 4 months ago

     

    Sarah,

    Honestly...there's a price to be paid for "corporate success" that may, and most probably will, eventually call for "trade-offs" at our core...whether its quality of relationship with children, marriage, crossing over some sacred value, health, or the loss of time/energy to pursuit a more noble, personal cause.

    From me to you - one generation to another, take the family first. Better to be "stuck" in middle management and have amazing kids. Better to have loved your wife/husband well. If that's what it costs, so be it!

    Rarely does anyone ever "get it all" without paying the price. Being great Mothers and (especially) Fathers seems to becoming lost in America's pursuit for a "job identity" - something we do.  And, I believe you already know this but...we are human beings, not human doings.

    Hey... for the record, I've worked for some amazing women. And, I'm married to an amazing woman (27 years), one more gifted in many ways than I am.

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Let's hear it for Sarah Palin and those like her!

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Sarah Palin??  Please.......one of the WORST examples I can think of!! 

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Regardless of politics - until she quit - she had managed to accomplish a lot while raising a family.   There are many examples of women that have achieved great success in their careers and Palin is likely too polarizing of a political figure for all to appreciate.

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Phil, you think?

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Politics aside, look at what she has been able to do in her life and her family. Perfect? No. She has though, like many women in history and today, somehow juggled the EXTREMELY difficult and challenging tasks of womanhood, motherhood, business and politics with a fair degree of success. She elicits both admiration and envy; praise and scorn -- depending on your politics, gender and other factors.

    She has pretty much done it on her own as well, which, not surprisingly, mirrors the persevering success that many staffing and recruiting company owner/founders have enjoyed (it should not be surprising that many in leadership roles in this industry are women).

    That is my point. It is possible for just about anyone -- regardless of gender -- to "have it all" -- if they are willing and able to pay the price in sacrifice and consequences (intended and unintended).

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Then he would have to be willing to read a post from a  woman w/ kids - you think he's willing to do that?  Do you believe he finds much value in that?  Let's not forget - he's a busy, important man.

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Great... I do a mean post and then he gets sick...you have no idea how much guilt I feel over stuff like that....seriously - he should be healthy to read it...

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Ex-GE CEO Jack Welch ailing with staph infection

    That'll learn him.

    ;)

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    As a recruiter for the past ten years I can't count how many times I have been told by hiring/HR managers that they are really looking to fill positions with "minorities and females".  They go on to explain that they really would like to have that all in one person "in order to fill a double quota".  There's that dirty little word...quota.  It automatically sets up discriminatory practices.  This gender and race are OK both those aren't.  I know for a fact when I've told these hiring/HR managers that we will forward only those candidates that are superiorly qualified regardless of race color or creed, my calls to them have been ignored.  They for the most part agree with me but they have quotas to fill.  I believe that we've already proven that discrimination removes many of the best and brightest from the pool.  Yet we are still willing to jeopardize company profits and our larger national economy by taking highly skilled, talented and innovative employees and tossing them aside.  It doesn't matter if they're white males, working moms or anyone else.  It's wrong.