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Gen Y'd

Gen Y'd is the always interesting, frequently random, often unfiltered, sometimes goofy, occasionally genius and never apologetic – random thoughts of my brain today on topics from recruiting to social media to whatever else I care about.

The (not so hidden) Discrimination in American Workplaces follow this blog post

posted by on July 16, 2009

Were Jack Welch's comments out of line and super old school - yes.  But the responses that I got back from white males over 40 were equally as disturbing and brings to the forefront the real discrimination going on in American workplaces.

Now, I am not going to sit here and tell you that there aren't cases where 'main stream' discrimination doesn't happen - but regardless of the who or why - discrimination is ugly and we should all be better recruiters (and people, frankly) to do everything we can to not let it happen at our organizations.

"The true issue in America isn't Women being pushed back into the ranks for having families, it's white men over 40 for purely being who they are."

That came to me as one of the MANY responses I got from my last blog via email, twitter or facebook in addition to the number of public comments made here on ERE.  The stories were astounding, the discrimination was unquestionable and the prevalence in our own industry was SHOCKING at best.

It is no surprise to most anyone who know's me that I don't believe in Affirmative Action, Quota's or anything else that gives someone an advantage.  And before you get going on me about that - our ongoing disadvantages in our country are class based - plain and simple.  The whole point of our country was to create a place where everyone can be equal - not to create artificially inequities in order to do so.  Quota's are not the best way to recruit.  While studies have shown that students who make it into MBA & Law programs on the quota method still succeed just fine in life - it still isn't the way I would want my company ran.  I would want the most qualified person for a job without regard to race, age, national origin, religous affiliation (or lack there of), handicap, haircut, eye color...or any other anything to be filling the job that I am recruiting for.

Story after story talked of younger women in their early 30's coming in and doing a "women & minority" push - basically saying, don't forward any other candidates.  Seriously ladies - the women's movement was not for us to get revenge - it was so we can be equals.  Not better, not worse.

So, let me get this straight - to all of the guys who keep emailing me thinking that I think it is great to get rid of all the white guys over 40 -I think it is just as wrong to discriminate against you as it is anyone else.  

In college, I did a thesis on the communication impact of the Aryan Nations.  Strange, I know, but after growing up in a very urban, inner city environment in California (where I was the minority) until I was 13 and moved to North Idaho (where the AN was headquartered) the thought of how differently people could think really intrigued me - so I studied it.

What does this have to do with this issue?  Agenda is different, but method is the same.  The Aryan Nations in the mid to late 90's would pay your student loans back college if you went into recruiting at a major organization and worked the agenda of only hiring white males.  A company I know in Chicago right now is struggling because it's Director of Recruiting has replaced the entire recruiting team with people who are also gay and will only send resumes homosexuals to the hiring managers.  If the managers don't want them - they are given monster access for themselves.  Their response - "trying to get more diversity across the departments"  (Super crazy, but truly going on as we speak)  And then there are the women who try to do the same thing ...

Regardless of how it is sliced and diced and who it is that is actually doing it - Discrimination is wrong - socially acceptable or not - it is disgusting, wrong and should not be tolerated.

 

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7 comments

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  • 1 point 4 months ago

     

    Sarah:

    I rarely reply to blogs, but after hearing news pundits and bloggers take Mr. Welch's comments out of context, I must shed some light on what he said. He never insinuated that it was just for a women's career to be hindered because of her family obligations. He even made a comment of the exact opposite, stating that it was important to include more women at the top of the corporate ladder. However, it is no secret that in order to advance in your career your accomplishments need to be noticed. That is very hard to do if you aren't at work.

    If I stayed home to take care of the children, or had flex hours, or other accommodations that took me out of visibility from my boss or peers (or work all together), I would fully expect this to have an impact on my career. The same would be said if I took a sabbatical, leave of absence, and etc. It's not a complete gender issue, as increasingly more men are staying home to take care of their families (admittedly still far fewer than women). This is a family decision, and really has nothing to do with work. This really boils down to our culture.

    Putting the above aside, raising a family is a far nobler job than climbing the corporate ladder. But this job like most others takes sacrifice. I would imagine that if you look at those among the top ranks in America, you will see a lot of sacrifice that has been given, many times including their families in the process.

    Right, wrong, or indifferent, Mr. Welch's point is a correct evaluation of the cause and solution to what we see in corporate America today. But, anytime where gender, race, ethnicity.... are brought up, it seems to ignite people's personal convictions, and their keyboards.

    Just my two cents...

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Two comments and one question:

    *You* might always hire the  most qualified person  regardless of race/gender etc.  Do not make the mistake of thinking that everyone does.  Some people will place their personal/political/social beliefs first even if it means hiring the person who is NOT the most qualified.

    ALSO...I have to agree with Sarah-age discrimination is probably the most rampant form of discrimination that exists.

    AND...

    How do you tell sexual orientation from a resume?

  • 1 point 4 months ago
    Sarah, Having a 25 year career in HR I just couldn’t resist telling you another story of blatant age discrimination. In order to protect the guilty, and because this person has a “Cruella Deville” personality and is shockingly still employed where this story took place, I’ll refer to her as Cruella. Everyone by now has worked with a bully. If you haven’t, keep working long enough and you’ll probably bump into one. Briefly, I’d describe a bully as a person who thrives in an atmosphere of fear and intimidation; probably masks low-self esteem with confrontation; has a pressing self-promoting agenda; and tends to manage information like poker cards held close to the vest…because after all it’s all about them winning, all the time. Bullies who manage people can easily be spotted by the high turn-over within their group. Typically this tyrant has everyone running for cover as soon as they come into the office. In addition, this person tends to be a micro-manager, and a control freak. Now, back to “Cruella”…when I first met her - on the surface she was charming, entertaining, and intelligent. (I understand her husband is high on the corporate latter as well.) She doesn’t have kids, but instead they own “show dogs.” This really helps to understand her psychology because she expects perfection from her “show employees” in a show to her boss. I came in to manage a project with an entertainment company that’s applicant system administrator was going out on maturity leave. Even though I was already working with another very fine client, I left there to help this company and Cruella out of a “jam.” A deal was struck and the pay was exceptional enough to entice me to come over. Rather than tell the whole story I’ll highlight it so you get the drift: • Heard some horror stories from her own staff shortly after arriving • Four or five other had recently left as I was coming in • I found she managed “up” very well • She was a legend in her own mind, and loved to have her huge ego stroked • She was a process “slave driver” and rewrote the metrics to suite her rather than our customers • Her corporate “clients” hated her but feared her politics • Her employees feared her and hated her politics • Everyone literally “hid in their offices” all day when she was there – doors shut • She pulled people out on a weekly basis to do a microscopic examination of their work • I avoided her “one-on-one” for about 11 weeks because I was on contract, but finally met her insanity • Many grown adults literally cried after this one hour secession with Cruella’s mind terrorist tactics • She threatened to replace me shortly after I started if I didn’t reduce my rate because it was “too high” even though she negotiated it coming in…dirty trick. • She made remarks about my energy level compared to her “younger” staff…yet • My work was getting rave reviews by the clients…because • I was delivering instant results not accomplished by 3 younger predecessors. • It took 13 weeks to get my first invoice paid • I literally experienced a heart attack days after one of her meetings • I called that next week, but was met with zero compassion • I came back 3-days later and gave immediate notice and literally clutched my chest in my office for my final two-days after having 3 heart stints put in that Saturday before. • I was relentlessly grilled for useless information for two days before I left • I was not allowed to talk with my fellow workers, nor clients! • They still owed me over $15,000 upon departing • I was threatened indirectly by my 3rd party contractor she would not pay my final invoice if I didn’t give two week’s notice. • I got out in two days ALIVE! • I got paid about 2-3 months later • There were only two others about my age, both long-time employees have left
  • 1 point 4 months ago

    I'm not entirely certain what your thesis is here, and I know that there seems to be more race- and class-based discrimination in the US than here in Canada, but I have to say that the #1 form of discrimination I see these days isn't race, sex, creed, culture, colour, religion, etc. - it's age discrimination.

    People who wouldn't think twice about discarding a candidate based on race or religion think nothing of discarding a candidate based on age - I've heard LOTS of stories from recruiters about how, even just 5 years ago, resumes from people over 45 were routinely just thrown out, regardless of what the resumes actually contained.

     

  • 0 points 4 months ago

    First of all, let me educated you on affirmative action and dispell the big lie that has been perpetrated by the pro-discrimination forces. Affirmative action simple states that, "when all things are equal" preference should be made to the group that has been historically discriminated against. In fact, affirmative action oppose preferential selection and instead prefer, preferential selection among equal or comparable candidates. You seem to have the Pat Buchannan mentality at believes that something is being taken away from a white male by having programs in place that promote diversity.

    If it weren't for those programs the opposite would still be true. That is as long as the skills are close, the position should go the white male, regardless of his age.

    It's amazing that the most egredious offenders of discrimination cry the loudest when the tables are turned. This is because they have always enjoyed a position of power and priviledge for too long. Now it hurts to have to share to pie with the rest of us.

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    Michael, I am neither a liar, nor an egregious offender, nor part of a "pro-discrimination force.” Neither do I “prescribe” labels (prejudice) to someone who I don’t know personally.

    If we sat and had coffee together, looked eye to eye into each other’s lives, listened to one another’s stories, we would walk away with a deeper appreciation and concern for one another. I think that’s what these forums are for.

    In my field of HR I often feel like the minority…so did I have it coming? - Perhaps. Should younger workers get their chance? Yes… when they are ready. Am I now relegated to the irrelevant? I hope not…

    In my neighborhood, in Los Angeles, my family is the minority… but we (neighborhood) look out for one another, tell our tales, share our struggles, and laugh about our short comings. It’s not always one happy family, but we really, do care.

    Patrick

  • 1 point 4 months ago

    In regards to the perspective expressed by Michael's comments...it would seem that someone would either be for discrimination, or against it...in whatever form it takes and that people who felt they had experienced being discriminated against might have a little empathy for those who might be currently being discriminated against?

    In a sense, age discrimination is the great equalizer.  It is color-blind and has no regard for sex, creed, religion, or place of national origin.  It is something we're all subject to face sooner or later.